Review – Carmina 3D scan bespoke derby in natural Chromexcel

Many both well-established and brand new brands have tried to offer bespoke shoes where one use 3D scans as base for the last production – all have failed. Now the industry giant Carmina steps into the game. I was one of the first in the world to get to try the service, find out if they have succeeded or not in this substantial review.

FACTS:

Brand: Carmina
Model: Modified 80777 plain toe derby
Leather: Horween Chromexcel
Colour: Natural
Last: Bespoke version of Calvià
Sole: Lactae Hevea rubber sole
Price: €1 500 / $1 600 (These are a review pair from Carmina)

Good casuals.

The manufacturer

Carmina probably doesn’t need an introduction for most readers. Normally I don’t review well-established actors like this, but  given that they introduced a whole new offering with this digital bespoke service, and I know there’s a big interest in this type of modern solutions, there were good reasons to do it in this case.

The brand was started on the Spanish island Mallorca back in 1997 by José Albaladejo, who named the company after his wife Carmina, and the operations is nowadays run by his children and grandchildren. They first established themselves a solid midrange maker in the Spanish market, a couple of decades ago they started making a mark internationally to a larger degree, and since about a decade back they are one of the really big players in the world of Goodyear welted shoes.

Carmina samples.

The bread and butter is still the dress and casual midrange men’s welted shoes, priced around €450, where they have a huge selection of RTW styles and also offer a good MTO service. They then also have things like Blake stitched loafer make-ups and a wide selection of Goodyear welted women’s shoes. In recent years they focused more and more on their own sales channels, both online and in their own stores, which nowadays can be found in several places around the world.

Ordering process

As I mentioned in the beginning, many have approached the process of using digital scans of feet as a base for creating a pair of bespoke lasts. Without mentioning brands, I know of seven different companies who’ve offered 3D scan bespoke services. I myself have tried five of them. The approach has varied, in two cases one have scanned the feet with a designated 3D scanner, in the three others one used a mobile device to scan the feet, either at a meeting with brand representatives or myself at home (with help from a second person). How the last has been produced has also varied, all from a proper lastmaker using the measurements to create the lasts, to fully algorithm-based development. All lasts have been plastic ones, as far as I know, often 3D printed since it’s easy to use for small batch productions like here.

Carmina introduced their digital bespoke service at the New York super trunk.

One of the ones I tried never delivered a pair of shoes. The end result of the other four were between extremely bad and clearly inferior to RTW. But yeah, not even the best one was something I could really wear. The brands all had various explanations to why they turned out the way they did. If one looked at the measurements of the feet, they were always fine, I had a bespoke maker compare to his measurements taken the old school way and both 3D scanner and mobile scan looked correct from what he could gather. So the “raw material” in terms of the hard data wasn’t wrong. But feet are extremely tricky, and to translate measurements into well fitting shoes is not easy.

I think that one of the main reasons why the results have ended so badly, even with those who had a lastmaker involved, is that the brands didn’t gather enough info about what type of feet the customer had (even if measurements would be identical, bony sensitive feet will need completely different shoes than fleshy non-sensitive ones), how one liked the shoes to fit, areas that normally were tricky in terms of fit, what sizes one normally wear in RTW, and so on. All those things that real bespoke shoemakers do very carefully. And as mentioned, none of these seven companies have continued doing 3D scan bespoke (in those cases it was companies fully committed to this approach the have closed down), which probably is a sign that it wasn’t only for me that it didn’t work out.

So, on to how the process of ordering was with Carmina. They launched this service last year in October in New York, a weekend where customers could order in their Upper East Side store, and at the New York Super Trunk Show where they exhibited. They took quite a lot of orders both in store and at the event. Responsible for the measurement process was Product Manager Margalida Rius Vallespir who, as I understand it, work closely with a lastmaker when the lasts are to be made.

Dark dot stickers attached on the feet before measurement.

One measure barefoot, and to help the scanner Margalida attaches dark dot stickers on various key areas of the feet. Then one stand on a cold glass and the machine scans from both sides and from below. After a minute or so, a 3D model of ones feet are shown on a computer screen. Straight away one can read the various measurements, one can rotate and see all the details of the feet, which always is cool.

Measurements taken (missed taking photos when I was scanned so this is of another person).

Here’s my feet in digital form.

All measurements summarised.

My feet from below, a pro with doing a full 3D scan with a machine instead of scanning with mobile or similar.

Then Margalida do take photos of your feet, and do ask various questions on fit etc. Here, I also gave even more input than what they asked for, to be sure that they had as much info as possible to base the lastmaking on. For the details of the shoes, one can use their MTO tool and choose all the details there, and if one want to adjust something extra that’s not part there it’s doable in most cases. Cause the shoes, they are made on the regular factory line, just like regular MTOs.

Price starts from €1,500 / $1,600. It is of course quite a lot of money, but to be honest, the fact that they do charge a relatively high amount is a good sign in my eyes (all of the other companies instead pushed to offer really low-priced bespoke shoes). This means that they can put in time with a lastmaker, that they can develop new patterns for each pair, include real bespoke lasts, and so on. Things one need to do to have the possibility to achieve a good end result.

General info about the shoes

The model is a modified version of their plain toe derby model called 80777 which is done on the round, chunky Calvià last, built with natural coloured storm welt on Lactae Hevea rubber soles. Here also with brass eyelets for an extra casual feel. Upper leather is natural Chromexcel leather. They have bespoke lasts with my name on it, which also is written inside the shoes and on the shoe box, which is the same type as for Carmina’s regular shoes. It comes with two large fabric shoe bags, and one extra pair of laces.

Chunky derbies with cushioning Lactae Hevea rubber soles and heels.

Top view.

Lovely brown shade of the leather.

Construction and materials

As mentioned, these are made on the regular factory line in Inca on Mallorca, so in terms of construction and materials, one know what to expect. It’s really solid midrange Goodyear welted shoes. The Chromexcel is a popular pull-up leather from the famous Chicago-based tannery Horween, done with a combination of chrome and vegetable tanning methods. Since it’s done from large cowhides, it’s common that it creases quite heavily. Here they’ve selected really good parts, which creases neatly. I’ve seen other Carmina shoes with the regular heavier CXL creases, so not sure if it’s more careful clicking due to it being a bespoke pair or if I just got lucky. This leather will develop a really nice patina with time. Heel stiffeners are made of leather board, toe stiffeners of celastic.

Here’s how the shoes look after some wear. Surely fine creasing for a CXL pair.

The natural CXL will rather quickly develop a lot of character.

The soles are very thick, and in some places they had a challenge with the sole stitching.

The laces used works perfectly for this style of shoes.

The make is overall good, although one can see that they’ve struggled a bit with the sole stitching of these really thick rubber soles. The Lactae Hevea soles are made by the French company Reltex. It’s made of 100% natural virgin hevea milk from Pará trees, a type of latex rubber soles that are very soft and cushioning yet relatively durable. Even if it looks really chunky it’s a single rubber sole, that’s how thick they are, and the heel block is made of one single piece of rubber.

Worth noting is the shoe trees, which are really sturdy hinged ones that are clearly made after the bespoke last, so no shortcut here.

The shoe trees.

With a nice engraving.

Fit

Alright, we’ve reached the obviously most important part of this review – the fit. Did Carmina mess things up in a similar way as all the other 3D scan bespoke shoes I’ve tried before, or did they actually manage to make good fitting shoes with these modern techniques? The answer is the latter. The fit is really good. Not perfect, a bit snug at my inner right ball where I have a slight hallux valgus, and att the outsiders of the left foot, but this seem to ease off with wear luckily. Apart from this though, it’s really comfortable, good around my also rather sensitive pinky toes, no excess space over the vamp, follows the arch relatively good, and so on.

Overall the fit is really good, clearly better than basically all RTW for me, even if there’s some areas one would modify slightly if there would be more pairs on the lasts.

Compared to fully handmade bespoke shoes there is a difference in arch support, on factory-made shoes it’s difficult to get the arch in as much and you don’t have the same long stiffeners one can do on handmade shoes. Also the insole is more flat than regular bespoke shoes, those also follows the contour of the bottom of the foot, cup the bottom of the heel more, sometimes have a pelotte for the medial arch, etc. So yes, it is a difference to good regular full bespoke shoes offered by traditional bespoke shoemakers. But it’s also a different to RTW shoes. I do have quite tricky feet, and basically no RTW works really good for me, there’s always compromises I need to make (often in terms of excess space, since comfort is most important). Here, I don’t have that.

Round toes.

With the shoes was a letter stating this was the eight par produced from this bespoke service, and there’s a QR-code linking to a survey where we are to provide feedback on our shoes, so they can develop them further. This totally makes sense, it’s the same for new bespoke shoemakers, it takes many customers before one get better and more secure on how to achieve a good fit for various feet (which is why young makers often have more fitting shoes). As already stated, feet are tricky things.

Summary

It’s not a surprise that it took a bigger company with the possibility to spend a long time and a lot of money to finally develop a 3D scan digital bespoke service that actually seems to work. At least for me. It shouldn’t be compared to traditional full bespoke shoes, the fit one can achieve is a bit behind due to production limitations and of course the shoes are more basic than fully handmade shoes. But as a sort of middle way that can be more accessible it can be a good option, not least for people with trickier feet who have a hard time to find well-fitting RTW, or those who just want to take another step in terms of fit but don’t want to or can’t go the full step to traditional bespoke. Carmina has been rather quiet with this bespoke service since autumn, and it’s not pushed on their website, although the page for the service is still there. Let’s hope they get positive responses now from the initial customers and get this rolling to a larger degree.

We continue with a bunch of more photos of the shoes.