Yesterday this quite dramatic news was spread around the world, that the British bespoke shoemaker John Lobb Ltd. were threatening to take legal action against luxury group Hermès, owner of John Lobb Paris, over the right to use its name. Here’s (likely) the reason why.
It was the British newspaper Daily Mail who, in a quite small news article, wrote about the topic yesterday, despite it being something that explicitly wasn’t to be spread, these things tend to find it’s way out there. And this one did faster than a Greek Cypriot closer finish an upper… According to the article John Lobb Ltd., the original bespoke firm based in London’s West End, claims that John Lobb Paris and Hermès “is unlawfully using its name and branding, and restricting its ability to trade freely”, and therefore is “threatening legal action against Parisian luxury giant Hermes over the rights to its name”. It also states that “Hermès are threatening to counter sue”. So how did this come to be, many shoe interested people ask themselves today?
The last room of John Lobb London, a lovely place.
First, some background. The founder John Lobb started a bespoke workshop in London already in 1866. It quickly became successful and recognised, so 1902 they also opened a workshop in Paris. In the 1970s, the French fashion house Hermès bought the Paris workshop from the Lobb family (who still operate the London workshop themselves), and they also bought the right to manufacture Ready To Wear shoes under the John Lobb name. The deal was that John Lobb London were never to make bespoke business in Paris, and vice versa. They were never to enter on the other company’s territory, so to speak. However, while John Lobb London continued on as a specialised bespoke business operating from London, only doing some quiet trunk shows here and there, John Lobb Paris under the Hermès flag and with the RTW business grew massively, opening up stores worldwide and became what most people associated the John Lobb brand with. What did the “original” John Lobb London firm think about that? They didn’t really care, to be frank. They kept on running their business as usual, quite successfully so, and things went on. Story is that John Lobb London even gets a good chunk of royalties from the RTW sales that Hermès does, though not confirmed.
John Lobb Paris RTW in their Jermyn Street store in London.
However, one thing happened: internet. All of a sudden the world was connected in a whole new way. And John Lobb Paris / Hermès was quick on the turf and built a big presence online, they have johnlobb.com, John Lobb on Instagram, Facebook and so on. John Lobb London is, as is well known, not the most progressive of firms out there. But now, when the grand old man John Hunter Lobb (great grand son of John Lobb) has stepped down and his less old sons, William, Jonathan and Nicholas runs the ship, they have been wanting to build a more proper online presence as well. Well, now people at Hermès interpreted this as that they were stepping into their territory, so to speak, and that there would be confusion for customers. For example, John Lobb London can’t even post their trunk show schedule on their website anymore, since when they visit New York it can be confused with the John Lobb Paris stores there, where they regularly host trunk shows for their bespoke, etc. Hermès did buy the rights to the John Lobb brand name, what’s special here is that there were two company’s operating under sort of the same name, and apparently the distinctions set up between the two is no longer working.
The companies haven’t been able to come to any solution here, so now John Lobb London is looking at taking it to court. Of course, they hope that this threat would lead to Hermès sitting down at the table, and reach some sort of new, modern agreement that will satisfy John Lobb London. Instead, at least now at first, Hermès threatens to strike back. John Lobb London might be a big player in terms being of a specialised bespoke shoemaker, but compared to a luxury fashion house like Hermès, they are nothing. It will surely be interesting to see where this goes next.
My problem with this Lobb London/Lobb Paris Hermes is that Lobb Paris had ‘bought’ the quality and name of ‘Lobb’ at the expense of quality. No one who even has dipped their toe (ahem) in to quality men’s shoes knows that many quality companies have been compromised by buy outs over the years. I personally have a pair of Church’s loafers (second hand on ebay) that were not welted. Subsequently, the sole came away as I wore them. I can only conclude that they were a pair made post ‘Prada buy out’ and that the quality heads south when a quality she maker is compromised by a being bought out. Lobb London may well have this problem: they are trying to capitalise on their heritage and know how in order to move forward and distance themselves from Lobb Paris/Hermes.
I say let Lobb London move forward and forge a new chapter in John Lobb London’s history.
Tony
Just Out of interest, may I ask what is the notion mented to be for the greek Cypriot closer finishing an upper?
Is there a reputation following them?
Thanks
Anthony Jones: Well, both yes and no, I would say. Hermès did plan all along to do RTW, that was where they could make money on the John Lobb name. RTW of course is different from bespoke. But, they have also kept and built up the bespoke workshop to be among the most highly reputed in the world. General consensus today is that John Lobb Paris bespoke has an overall higher standard than John Lobb Ltd. London.
Pieris: There’s a legendary freelance closer in England, a Greek Cypriot, who always use full speed on his sewing machine, it’s supposed to be crazy watching him work. Don’t remember the name, that’s why I wrote it like that.
…Thanks for replying.
As a RTW shoe owner/wearer, I perhaps don’t have the experience or knowledge to comment on bespoke shoes. I didn’t know that Lobb Paris is regarded as having a greater standard of making over Lobb London. Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and gracefully responding.
Many thanks, Anthony
p.s I’d love to see the Greek Cypriot in action – sounds like a unique fella 😉
Anthony: Cheers!
Hehe yeah, he’s crazy. Heard a story about an American bootmaker who visited to have a boot upper stitched in porosus crocodile (like the most expensive leather you can get). He didn’t knew how the closer worked, just that he was good. When he hears the sewing machine go “rrrrrrrrrrraaattt”, “rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaatt”, like a machine gun, he almost pissed his pants ? The closing came out excellent though..
Lol! crocodile’s last laugh!
Anthony Jones: the quality of JLSJ has been hit and miss lately is what I’ve been told. Subpar finishing, poor fit, lack of attention to detail. JLP hasn’t had the same complaints for their bespoke. I’m not a client of JLSJ so take what I say for what it’s worth. I am a client of JLP and can tell you that I didn’t experience all of those issues. I did have a poor fit on my order so JLP took them back and remade my shoes.
Quality issues boil down to money issues imho. John Lobb Saint James employs outworkers because it’s cheaper. Hermès doesn’t need to do that to the Paris branch. Workers get less squeezed too, presumably, and therefore can work more effectively.
Example in the world of tailoring, for instance: Berluti wanted to build a bespoke tailoring operation 2-3 years ago.
So… they bought Arnys, a prestigious bespoke shop…. and then bought out Maison Sirven (young company by ex-Camps de Luca workers).
Now I have no doubt Berluti can do a suit as good as any Savile Row house. Money talks.
Gabriel C: There’s a lot of advantages of having in-house production, no doubt, but the freelance system can work excellent as well. It all comes down to quality check and the requirements you set on your products for the freelancers to follow. If this declines, the freelancers notice this and some will do shortcuts (they get paid per shoe), cause they can work less but earn the same. That’s what’s been problem with for example some of the British firms.
I’m a customer of JLSJ – the quality, style and fit are next to miserable, which you can not say about the price.
Ilya: Sorry to hear about your experience. As I touch on earlier, and as Robert Fong mentions above (in a comment I missed before), JL London today is a bit of a hit and miss, you can get excellent stuff as well as inferior stuff. But surprised you also mention style, if you didn’t like their style, why not choose a different maker?
Jesper, that was a part of my quest to find a perfect bespoke shoemaker in UK. Even though I didn’t like their style from the beginning, I couldn’t resist trying the legendary brand, hence selected the double monk sample, that was most appealing to me from the aesthetic stand point.
There was one thing that surprised me a lot during the process – they are self confident that they don’t make fittings, only initial measurement! As a result of such approach the finished pair was way to large, falling from my feet. The guy at JLSJ suggested to use additional insole to compensate the issue, which I refused an demanded the shoes to me remade. Finally the fit is ok, but there are some quality issues appeared after a half of year after collection….
Ilya: I understand. And very sorry to hear about your experience. I don’t know when they went away from the welt fittings which they traditionally use, where they make the shoe up to having the welt attached, then have the fitting, and make adjustments. It’s an ok middle way between doing fitting shoes and having no fittings at all, and the traditional way done by English bespoke makers. But doing no fitting at all is only to save money, no benefits nor for the worker, nor for the customers.
Doesn’t sound that wise given one side has a lot bigger war chest…, out of all the English bespoke shoes I think I want to try Nicholas Templeman, and maybe Gaziano Girling (though not sure about GG post Daniel Wegan)